Inside the terrorist organization Hamas with retired FBI agent

Oct 11, 2023, 6:00 PM | Updated: Nov 30, 2023, 5:46 pm

people look through damaged buildings in israel...

Israelis inspect a damaged residential building after it was hit by a rocket fired from the Gaza Strip, in Ashkelon, Israel, Monday, Oct. 9, 2023. The militant Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip carried out an unprecedented, multi-front attack on Israel at daybreak Saturday, firing thousands of rockets as dozens of Hamas fighters infiltrated the heavily fortified border in several locations by air, land, and sea, killing hundreds and taking captives. Palestinian health officials reported scores of deaths from Israeli airstrikes in Gaza. (AP Photo/Erik Marmor)

(AP Photo/Erik Marmor)

SALT LAKE CITY — How do you negotiate with someone who is dedicated to your destruction? A retired FBI agent discusses the militant organization Hamas and the hostages the militants have captured, which Israel desperately wants safely returned.

On Saturday, Gaza unleashed wave after wave of armed militants in a large-scale attack by air, sea, and land on Israel. In the rural communities that were savaged across the border from Gaza, Israel said it found 1,500 bodies of militants.

More than 1,200 died in Israel, according to Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus, as reported by CNN in an update on Wednesday.

Talk to the expert

Retired FBI supervisor and special agent Karl Schmae, who trained forces in Israel and has first-hand expertise about Hamas, the Palestinian militant group, joined Dave and Debbie to discuss the current hostage situation on the ground in Gaza.

Nothing happens in Gaza, Schmae said, without the authority of Hamas — and the militant leaders rule with an iron fist.

“I had the opportunity to go to Israel actually to train with the Shin Bet, which is basically the equivalent of the FBI,” Schmae said. “They’re very good. I mean, they were fascinating to see how they were able to recruit sources within Hamas to give them intelligence.”

An estimated 150 Israelis, many of them civilians, were taken hostage by Palestinian militants during the broadest invasion of Israeli territory in 50 years. About 900 other Israelis were killed, according to The New York Times and a government statement (linked below).

‘I Just Hope That They Are Alive’: How Hamas Abducted 150 Israelis

‘Gaza is enemy territory’

“Hamas is certainly going to be dispersing those hostages throughout Gaza in order to protect them and to make it harder for them to be rescued,” Schmae said. “And I have no doubt they would also use them as human shields.”

Rescuing hostages is the most difficult special forces mission, he said, adding residents are tightly packed into the urban maze of Gaza.

“It’s a really hard area to fight in. . . territory that’s controlled by the enemy, like Gaza, that’s hard to do without getting the hostages killed, so it’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few days,” Schmae said.

Back in 2006,  Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldier Gilad Shalit was captured by Palestinian militants in a cross-border raid via tunnels near the Israeli border. In 2011, Shalit was exchanged for 1,027 prisoners — almost all Palestinians and Arab-Israelis as part of an agreement between Israel and Hamas.

“I think Israel would be willing to make some deals, but obviously the scale of this, having 150 hostages, that’s huge. I mean, who knows what Hamas would be demanding in return?” Schmae said.

Hamas has a charter that says it is dedicated to the eradication of Israel, he said.

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory), according to the Avalon Project.

“It makes it really hard to try to negotiate with somebody who’s committed to your destruction,” Schmae said. “So this is just an incredibly difficult situation that Israel is in right now.”


Utah rabbi details escape out of Israel

Dave & Dujanovic can be heard weekdays from 9 a.m. to noon. on KSL NewsRadio. Users can find the show on the KSL NewsRadio website and app, as well as Apple Podcasts and Google Play. 

We want to hear from you.

Have a story idea or tip? Send it to the KSL NewsRadio team here.

Israel + Hamas

Columbia University students participate in an ongoing pro-Palestinian encampment on their campus f...


Students at Columbia and nationwide are upping Gaza war protests

Students across the nation set up encampments, occupied buildings and ignored demands to leave Tuesday.

1 day ago

Columbia University students hold a protest in support of Palestinians, during the ongoing conflict...

Matt Egan, Chris Boyette, Shimon Prokupecz and Nic F. Anderson, CNN

Columbia University main campus classes will be hybrid until semester ends; NYU students, faculty arrested during protests

Columbia University, the epicenter of pro-Palestinian protests at US college campuses in recent days, says all classes at its main campus will be hybrid until the spring semester ends. 

2 days ago

Student activists have spent multiple days occupying the lawns at Columbia University, calling for ...

Celina Tebor and Zoe Sottile, CNN

Rabbi associated with Columbia University recommends Jewish students ‘return home’ amid tense protests on campus

A rabbi recommended that Jewish students “return home as soon as possible and remain home” amid ongoing protests.

3 days ago

President Joe Biden spoke by phone with Netanyahu, and made clear that the US would not participate...

Rob Picheta, CNN

Israel vows to ‘exact a price’ after Iranian attack

Israel pledged that it will “exact a price” from Iran as the country weighs its response to an unprecedented overnight barrage of drone and missile strikes.

10 days ago

Palestinians displaced by Israel's military offensive head toward north Gaza in an attempt to retur...

Mohammad Al-Sawalhi, Abeer Salman, Kareem Khadder and Zeena Saifi, CNN

Thousands of Palestinians attempt to return home to northern Gaza, but face Israeli fire

Thousands of Palestinians attempted to return to their homes in northern Gaza on Sunday when they came under Israeli fire.

10 days ago

A demonstrator waves Iranian and Palestinian flags during an anti-Israeli gathering at the Felestin...

Associated Press

The Latest | Israel says 99% of drones and missiles launched by Iran were intercepted

Israel is hailing the success of its defenses after an attack by Iran involving hundreds of drones, ballistic missiles and cruise missiles.

10 days ago

Sponsored Articles

a doctor putting her hand on the chest of her patient...

Intermountain Health

Intermountain nurse-midwives launch new gynecology access clinic

An access clinic launched by Intermountain nurse-midwives provides women with comprehensive gynecology care.

Young couple hugging while a realtor in a suit hands them keys in a new home...

Utah Association of Realtors

Buying a home this spring? Avoid these 5 costly pitfalls

By avoiding these pitfalls when buying a home this spring, you can ensure your investment will be long-lasting and secure.

a person dressed up as a nordic viking in a dragon boat resembling the bear lake monster...

Bear Lake Convention and Visitors Bureau

The Legend of the Bear Lake Monster

The Bear Lake monster has captivated people in the region for centuries, with tales that range from the believable to the bizarre.


Live Nation Concerts

All the artists coming to Utah First Credit Union Amphitheatre (formerly USANA Amp) this summer

Summer concerts are more than just entertainment; they’re a celebration of life, love, and connection.

Mother and cute toddler child in a little fancy wooden cottage, reading a book, drinking tea and en...

Visit Bear Lake

How to find the best winter lodging in Bear Lake, Utah

Winter lodging in Bear Lake can be more limited than in the summer, but with some careful planning you can easily book your next winter trip.

Happy family in winter clothing at the ski resort, winter time, watching at mountains in front of t...

Visit Bear Lake

Ski more for less: Affordable ski resorts near Bear Lake, Utah

Plan your perfect ski getaway in Bear Lake this winter, with pristine slopes, affordable tickets, and breathtaking scenery.

Inside the terrorist organization Hamas with retired FBI agent